I came across some odd things in tv tropes on character/series pages. Some seemed/were incorrect. (*1) But one of the odd ones I saw was the comment that Jason Todd fans constantly claim he can win any fight because of his All Caste training. I'm not sure how accurate this is but I do recall coming upon one discussion where fans said Jason should be written as more of a challenge because of his training with the All Caste. The subject of whether or not he should be able to beat Cass (like was shown in Batman and Robin Eternal) was also talked about in that discussion.
So as a fan of both characters I thought I'd look into their unique abilities. That means Cass being able to read body language and Jason having...for lack of a better term the "All" ability. Now I think somethings should be clear going in. First of all there's the fact we don't currently have the full range of what Jason can do quite yet. We haven't seen him do everything other All Caste members can do (*2) and we know he's the odd man out of said pupils. The Tynion and Pfeifer runs are also questionable in this area. (*3) He might be able to do more but I'm just talking about one skill in particular. On the Cass side I'm not caught up on how she's currently written so I'll be using older comics as example.
The actual reason the All Caste has their name is because they can see into the past/present and future all at once. Jason is the sole human to have mastered the training (*4), Essence has confirmed that he's the only one that wasn't driven insane by it. That might give him a more limited use of this ability, it might not. His teacher Ducra could see into Jason's (potential?) future when they first meet and decided to train him because of it. Jason has been evasive with others when it comes to what he's able to do due to his All Caste training. (*5) He might not be using the "All" skill too often which could be explained with him feeling shame for misusing Ducras' teachings after he first met Kori.
Many assumed Jason had a degree of being able to read body language from what was seen when he fought the Iron Rule in Red Hood/Arsenal. This might actually be an example of him using the "All" ability to find a way to escape. Jason does say that he lets go and "giving into" his training. Since Jason doesn't seem aware of every threat all the time we'll assume it's not an ability that's constantly on. Still it says a lot of his skill to split his focus on three different times and still function normally. But the limitations aren't well known at this point.
Cassandra Cain could read the body language of someone so well because it was her first language. She didn't actually know the full meaning of words until a telepath messed around with her mind to try to fix her ability to communicate. Cass still had trouble learning to read because of the way her mind developed to process body movements in her early years. (*6) She can tell when someone is going to attack and read emotions with the "tells" of the body.
This skill was so good that many mistook Cass for a meta. She has been able to successful dodge bullets when she tries to avoid them. (Cass has allowed herself to be shot to protect someone else.)
This usually works in her favor but Cass couldn't fight the Joker like the rest because of it. If she reads a person and translates it into how their going to move she can stay ahead of them. Joker didn't make sense to her and she read it as gibberish. (*7)
In general I'm not a fan of the Eternal books and the reason Jason gives for having the upper hand in BARE didn't really make sense to me. Ignoring the characterization (which did feel off) he says that they both studied being assassins then says this:
"The longer we fight, the more I can read you reading me."
...Which makes no sense in the context of how either of their abilities work. At least with the information we currently have. It seems to be suggesting Jason is either taking her skills from her (which makes zero sense) or he's learning from fighting her. Sure Barbara could teach Cass a fighting skill her dad never bothered with in a short time but she doesn't win fights by instantly understanding how they fight. (Disregarding any obvious flaws she could see.) She can predict how their going to move.
As near as I can guess the closest we've seen to what it would look like if Jason and Cass both fought using their abilities is one of the Rose Wilson/Ravager vs Cass fights. Rose can get glimpses into the future which made her a serious match for Cass. There hasn't been many confirmations of times Jason used the "All" to help him win a fight but if he did it could level the playing field. Likewise I'm not sure if Cass in current canon is at the same skill level as she was in old canon. But if they were both at their peak level it would be a better matched fight than many give it credit for.
So as a fan of both characters I thought I'd look into their unique abilities. That means Cass being able to read body language and Jason having...for lack of a better term the "All" ability. Now I think somethings should be clear going in. First of all there's the fact we don't currently have the full range of what Jason can do quite yet. We haven't seen him do everything other All Caste members can do (*2) and we know he's the odd man out of said pupils. The Tynion and Pfeifer runs are also questionable in this area. (*3) He might be able to do more but I'm just talking about one skill in particular. On the Cass side I'm not caught up on how she's currently written so I'll be using older comics as example.
The actual reason the All Caste has their name is because they can see into the past/present and future all at once. Jason is the sole human to have mastered the training (*4), Essence has confirmed that he's the only one that wasn't driven insane by it. That might give him a more limited use of this ability, it might not. His teacher Ducra could see into Jason's (potential?) future when they first meet and decided to train him because of it. Jason has been evasive with others when it comes to what he's able to do due to his All Caste training. (*5) He might not be using the "All" skill too often which could be explained with him feeling shame for misusing Ducras' teachings after he first met Kori.
Many assumed Jason had a degree of being able to read body language from what was seen when he fought the Iron Rule in Red Hood/Arsenal. This might actually be an example of him using the "All" ability to find a way to escape. Jason does say that he lets go and "giving into" his training. Since Jason doesn't seem aware of every threat all the time we'll assume it's not an ability that's constantly on. Still it says a lot of his skill to split his focus on three different times and still function normally. But the limitations aren't well known at this point.
Cassandra Cain could read the body language of someone so well because it was her first language. She didn't actually know the full meaning of words until a telepath messed around with her mind to try to fix her ability to communicate. Cass still had trouble learning to read because of the way her mind developed to process body movements in her early years. (*6) She can tell when someone is going to attack and read emotions with the "tells" of the body.This skill was so good that many mistook Cass for a meta. She has been able to successful dodge bullets when she tries to avoid them. (Cass has allowed herself to be shot to protect someone else.)
This usually works in her favor but Cass couldn't fight the Joker like the rest because of it. If she reads a person and translates it into how their going to move she can stay ahead of them. Joker didn't make sense to her and she read it as gibberish. (*7)In general I'm not a fan of the Eternal books and the reason Jason gives for having the upper hand in BARE didn't really make sense to me. Ignoring the characterization (which did feel off) he says that they both studied being assassins then says this:
"The longer we fight, the more I can read you reading me."
...Which makes no sense in the context of how either of their abilities work. At least with the information we currently have. It seems to be suggesting Jason is either taking her skills from her (which makes zero sense) or he's learning from fighting her. Sure Barbara could teach Cass a fighting skill her dad never bothered with in a short time but she doesn't win fights by instantly understanding how they fight. (Disregarding any obvious flaws she could see.) She can predict how their going to move.
As near as I can guess the closest we've seen to what it would look like if Jason and Cass both fought using their abilities is one of the Rose Wilson/Ravager vs Cass fights. Rose can get glimpses into the future which made her a serious match for Cass. There hasn't been many confirmations of times Jason used the "All" to help him win a fight but if he did it could level the playing field. Likewise I'm not sure if Cass in current canon is at the same skill level as she was in old canon. But if they were both at their peak level it would be a better matched fight than many give it credit for.
*1 For example: It said that a lot of people thought Jason was unsympathetic when Bruce beat him up in #25 but I'm not sure where this opinion comes from. An overwhelming majority of comments I read thought Bruce went way too far and felt bad for Jason even if he techically broke their promise. (Which later issues state that he didn't.) On the Booster Gold page they've been calling Trixie Collins "Trixie Williams" for years.
*2 While it seems like Jason could have had the mystical powers of the All Caste he's also their only active human member. Something is definitely considered off about his resurrection which actually scared Talia Al Ghul and is the reason she took Jason to the All Caste. Lobdell hasn't confirmed how much Jason is capable of although we can see what he can't do. Essence healed Roy when he was burned so bad he was near death. Jason called her for help which seems to imply he doesn't have the ability to heal others.
*3 Tynion for example had a rather confusing idea about Jason being able to punch the immortality out of the Untitled that never lined up with what was previously written. It also said Talia was taught by Ducra which doesn't fit what we're told under Lobdell. Pfeifer seemed to have given Jason mental powers but it was never touched upon.
*4 Jason says Ducra taught him how the past/present/future all exists at once way back at the beginning of the first volume of RHATO but we get confirmation that he means that literally in RHO #35.
*5 While he acts like it's no big deal under Lobdell Jason never explains what he's able to do and why. At times Jason could see Essence when Roy and Kori couldn't. At first he tried to hide this fact by walking away to talk to Essence. While Jason does the weirdest stuff under Tynion out in the open (pulling out glowing swords from his chest, etc.) he refuses to tell Roy why his chest is glowing when his friend sees it. Pfeifer has Jason mention there being a psychic link but has him drop the subject when Starfire is surprised.
*6 Which is why the idea of Batman teaching her to read Navajo, a very difficult language, during the "Evil Cass" stories made zero sense.
*7 During the "Evil Cass" reign Tim won because he didn't use any particular fighting style. Cass is able to predict how someone fights because of their body movements/language, it has nothing to do with the style they use. If she can't read them or catch up to them she could have trouble. Again, it has nothing to do with her not knowing the style.
*2 While it seems like Jason could have had the mystical powers of the All Caste he's also their only active human member. Something is definitely considered off about his resurrection which actually scared Talia Al Ghul and is the reason she took Jason to the All Caste. Lobdell hasn't confirmed how much Jason is capable of although we can see what he can't do. Essence healed Roy when he was burned so bad he was near death. Jason called her for help which seems to imply he doesn't have the ability to heal others.
*3 Tynion for example had a rather confusing idea about Jason being able to punch the immortality out of the Untitled that never lined up with what was previously written. It also said Talia was taught by Ducra which doesn't fit what we're told under Lobdell. Pfeifer seemed to have given Jason mental powers but it was never touched upon.
*4 Jason says Ducra taught him how the past/present/future all exists at once way back at the beginning of the first volume of RHATO but we get confirmation that he means that literally in RHO #35.
*5 While he acts like it's no big deal under Lobdell Jason never explains what he's able to do and why. At times Jason could see Essence when Roy and Kori couldn't. At first he tried to hide this fact by walking away to talk to Essence. While Jason does the weirdest stuff under Tynion out in the open (pulling out glowing swords from his chest, etc.) he refuses to tell Roy why his chest is glowing when his friend sees it. Pfeifer has Jason mention there being a psychic link but has him drop the subject when Starfire is surprised.
*6 Which is why the idea of Batman teaching her to read Navajo, a very difficult language, during the "Evil Cass" stories made zero sense.
*7 During the "Evil Cass" reign Tim won because he didn't use any particular fighting style. Cass is able to predict how someone fights because of their body movements/language, it has nothing to do with the style they use. If she can't read them or catch up to them she could have trouble. Again, it has nothing to do with her not knowing the style.
No comments:
Post a Comment