Tuesday, February 21, 2017

Why the Ranking list doesn't make sense

I was going to drop this but someone brought this up and I feel the need the go through the list.

If you saw King 's list you know his ranking of the best bat fighters. Also I disagree that strategy isn't a factor because that's how Batman wins a majority of his fights. Every one always says if he has enough prep time then he win hence it's a big part of his style thus anyone can use it to win.

By the way I'm not ranking these characters just listing if I agree or not based on the order King used.

Cassandra Cain. In most cases I'd argue she's at the top of not just this list but the world's best fighters. I'm not sure if the current version is there yet or tied. Anyway fighting is her life, she was trained to communicate with body movement and can read the moves of others. That's always given her the advantage except when bad writing occurs.

Nightwing. King putting Nightwing next shows his clear bias. Yes Dick is highly skilled but saying it's because of his acrobatic skills makes no sense. That can be an advantage but not if his opponent knows how to use it against him to make Dick tire himself out. In other words there's more to fighting. I don't think he's as strong as Bruce but still an excellent fighter. Maybe slightly better than Jason depending on how their currently written.

Batman. Bruce should be second or tied with Cass. Titles usually have him as the one handling threats others can't. He's got the strength, experience, brains and endurance. The Ghuls respect him because he's a truly worthy opponent. Hell he has the best record for overcoming enemies of the bunch.

Damian. The fact he's listed fourth is laughable. King made him win against Tim and Jason in Robin War for no sensible reason. Both have defeated him effortlessly when they try. In fact one of Tim's most memorable lines against him was : "You lost the second I started trying." Morrison even had Jason written as a better fighter than his creation. Writers tend to overpower Damian lately but he's still a kid. He's the weakest, has limited range and needs to rely on speed. Even Stephanie schooled him once and she considers one of the weaker fighters. Still I'd put him above her and Duke but everyone else King listed I'd put above him.

Kate. She's good but she's made her share of mistakes too. I'm not sure how she'd rank against the others. Maybe tied with Nightwing? She's better than freaking Damian. I haven't been reading her under Tynion and I'm not sure if I'd use his writing to rank characters. More of that below.

Helena. Another bias for King. I'll admit she a better fighter than the Helena Simone ranked low and described has a brawler. But if we're really counting Rebirth Helena as a bat family member for being a member of BOP I'd say Black Canary is better. Other than that I haven't read enough of her to feel comfortable ranking her.

Jason. He's got stamina, I'd argue he's the strongest of the bat kids, he was fast enough to escape Bruce/Dick and as the tallest Robin has the best range. If you count Tynion's writing as canon Jason was trained by Shiva, effortlessly defeated her yet thought Ra's was a stronger fighter. Ra's was still defeated. He was trained by the All Caste and was so much of a challenge to Batman Bruce wondered if Jason had surpassed him (keep in mind that was Jason holding back.) King is biased here too as he comments sound more like him picking on Jason than teasing. And again placed Damian was the fourth best.

Duke. Huh, I wonder if King writes Duke. There's no way Duke is almost as good as Jason or better than Tim. He's a newcomer and wasn't trained by the LOA.

Stephanie. I don't know if she's better than Duke in this version but she'd be near the bottom either way. Love her character but that's always how it's been. It's part of her charm.

Tim. He really thinks Tim is this low? Jason defeated him more than once but Tim beat Damian several times. He's been shown as being better than Stephanie and I don't Duke is as good as he is. This is the guy that was seriously considered as a potential future Batman, he's not a wimp. Below Dick and Jason but better than Stephanie, Duke and Damian.

I know I didn't actually rank most of these but I can admit I need to read more of these characters to be able make an informed decision. I can tell you for sure that Cassandra and Bruce are at the top. Dick next then Jason, Tim and Damian. That's just based on how they were written in the past and Jason's position jumped up to Bruce's level during UTH. Regardless I do not agree with quite a bit of this list.


  1. I haven't seen this, but I just assume that Alfred can wipe the floor with all of them.

  2. Nah, Alfred would consider himself above that as he can get them to stop fighting with a raised eyebrow.

  3. Even the idea that Cass can wipe anybody because of body-reading doesn't sit well with me. Body-reading is a thing that all MA artists do. Just because she can do it perfectly doesn't mean others suddenly can't read her moves. And like you said, taking away strategy means taking both Batman and the Robins' strongest weapon.

  4. It made more sense than Dick having that ability. But Cass couldn't beat everyone since she can't read everyone. Joker overwhelmed her because she relied on this ability and he's unpredictable. This also doesn't mean she can't be taken by surprise by something like Jason's suit shocking her. It also doesn't mean she can't be hit just that its harder to defeat her.

    Her body reading is a part of her in a way it's not for most MA. Cass can not only pick up on emotions she can see hits coming faster. That's because she didn't learn actual language until much later so only the bodies of others was her guide. Other might see her moves coming but whether they can be faster enough is another thing.

    Yeah if strategy can't be used then most of these characters wouldn't be on this list he made.