Friday, June 12, 2015

Just to Clarify...

...On the whole Starfire change. From this article.

"After appearing in RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS, we occasionally caught glimpses of the Kori we used to know. Being in a team book with various story arcs didn’t allow her to shine on her own."

Yeah she only had a whole arc devoted to her called "Starfire." A far more complex relationship with her sister who actually loved her and only gave her up to save their people. Had a loving boyfriend without being defined by him. The last RHATO story deal with memories of her past slavery, confronting her tormentor, risking the chance of getting addicted to a drug her captors used to use on her to track down a threat to Earth and forgiving the man that once tried to kill her out of grief for the lost of his family. What else was there?
Oh Yeah!

Kori took over the slaver ship "Starfire" and made it her own! Becoming a respected and feared space captain that the other former slaves followed!

"In this scene, we get a glimpse into some of Kori’s innocence. She’s been on Earth for a few years but being isolated and living the confined life of a her or “Outlaw,” there’s still a bit she might not be caught up on."

Uh no. According to the writers of Starfire she knows enough people in the superhero community to make it impossible for her to not get Earth lingo whether their superheroes or not. Kori was isolated for awhile but she knew enough about Earth to know what the hell Jason and Roy were talking about. She never was confused like she seems to be in her new series. In fact it makes less sense for her to be naïve/innocent (whatever you want to call this portrayal) since she worked with Dick and Roy before she lived on her island. This isn't just stated in RHATO people, it's in Secret Origins #8 as part of Dick Graysons' past.

"Later when Kori discovers her new friend, the sheriff, was named after her grandmother and that the grandmother had passed away, we see the emotional side of Kori. Kori’s known Stella for a very brief time here. Because she is attuned to the emotions of others, the idea of Stella’s elderly grandmother dying of cancer made her sad. This is just another reason you can’t help but appreciate Starfire’s innocent and caring nature."

Except she made her new friend cry. Look how Kori showed she was caring when Jason was mourning his fallen teachers. She knows what he needs and doesn't make him uncomfortable.

"Then there’s sarcasm. Sarcasm is a concept that some actually have difficulty comprehending (especially on the internet). Kori is by no means ignorant but she just isn’t completely aware that people don’t always literally mean everything they say. Think about it, neither Jason Todd nor Roy Harper seem the type to unleash huge amounts of sarcasm."

Are you fucking kidding me? No seriously, are you? Have you ever read Jason Todd and Roy Harper? Their former sidekicks (well business partner in Roys' case now) that have bad experiences with their mentors. Of course their sarcastic! Especially when Jasons' talking to Roy at the start of RHATO ! If she's been around them she knows it! Jason definitely is sarcastic because it's one of the few traits most writers agree he has!

"Along with trying to fit in and find a way to support herself, we also see Kori experience drinking beer in a bar. Jason Todd doesn't seem like much of a beer drinker but it's likely Roy Harper would be the type to pick up the occasional six pack."

I never got why since Dick is said to be 21 while Jason is of course younger, but for some reason artists like Greg Capullo (who in his defense thought Dick was 23) draw Jason drinking beer. That's what he's doing at the end of DOTF. Lobdell himself has had Jason drinking at the bar in RHATO #4 although that was to start a fight to get attention from the cops. I'm pretty sure the writer of this article hasn't read the series since Roy doesn't drink as he's a recovering alcoholic. I'm not sure if that would keep Jason and Kori from having beer at home but they traveled a lot to places they could get drinks at. I'm no fan of Tynions' run but the cover implies drinking isn't a strange concept to her. (Note Roy is drinking water here.)

 "Kori also has to go shopping. Her purple outfit might not stick out too much given the location she's at but having some normal clothes could be helpful."

She had no problem flying ahead of Jason and Roy to get a fashionable outfit then meet them in a limo. Not something she could have done without understanding how money works. And since I doubt she normally lines her battle wear with money that means she'd also have to have some concept of how banks worked.

There's a difference between naïve and dim. As I said elsewhere Booster Golds' first series dealt with him being naïve while this doesn't make Kori look like the brightest bulb. This is regression, actually it's worse since Starfire has never acted like this not even on the cartoon.


  1. To add on this, just check this answer I got on a forum as response of my critics on Starfire's portrayal:

    "Palmiotti and Conner use Lobdell's origin and background (glossing over her time with the Outlaws) but despite Kori being well adapted and quite savy during her time with the boys now suddenly she doesn't understand human currency or the concepts of work and dying of old age. This creates a pretty jarring characterization that at least for me, was enough to kill any interest I've had on the character."

    Other guy
    "Uh, she clearly understands the concepts but well, a princess-turned-slave/lab rat is pretty much not going to have any practical experience of jobhunting. It's not 'what is 'work'?' so much as Kimmy Schmidt not knowing how to apply for a job. And she knew about death pretty clearly too, she just, unlike in Red Hood, displayed empathy (which is supposed to be Tamaran's hat) and was immediately expressing that for the sheriff's loss.

    In case you can't tell, I liked Starfire #1 a LOT. (Especially the 'More English?' gag.)

    It's an obvious reaction to the justified uproar over Nu52 Starfire. This is more of a return to her NTT roots mixed with the cartoon version, which is a substantial improvement."

    I just can't even understand this logic, like, really guys? REALLY?

  2. If Kori was just confused over one thing then fine. But for her to not understand sarcasm, turns of phrases, to start bawling over a near strangers' loss, etc. it's a problem. Kori knew humor in RHATO, she often used sarcasm with Roy when he was joking around.

    I don't care if she hasn't had a human experience like filling out a form for a job. There's a way to write her maturely without it looking like she got mind wiped. And I don't remember NTT making her act this bad. Kori would get confused sure but she'd be more patient and explain why she didn't understand. It wasn't handled the same.

    The tone is completely different from NTT because it's played for laughs. Except for her not getting why people got upset about nudity NTT wasn't really about making her naive nature a joke. Some things frustrated her, others upset her, it was a complete picture.

    This acts like she just crash landed or had her memories taken. Does it ignore RHATO? Mostly (except for knowing a few people from there) but if I had to guess I'd say it was more of a bias against Jason than Roy. Instead of having Kori as a mature woman that knows about earth customs but chooses not to indulge them all she's taken back even further than the NTT portrayal. In that regard it feels like what was done with Batgirl.

    I have seen some long time Starfire fans online that hate this take. I'm guessing it's mostly loved for its creators, being trendy, going against RHATO. That said I find it insulting. I saw someone hoping this is Kori playing dumb but given interviews they want her to be naive.

  3. I have to wonder if the bias more than aimed to characters is aimed towards Lobdell. There's eomthing about the interviews with Conner and Palmiotti that comes off like being passive-agressive when talking about her time with the Outlaws. The fact that them (as many people over the internet) seem to have never read/know beyond RHATO #1 doesn't do them any favors.

  4. That too and the scandal started from the first issue. They really are and/or they have no idea what happened in RHATO. But I also get the impression they don't like Jason since they had Roy, Essence, Cheshire and Tim instead of Jason. They don't even mention him unless he's the one Essence was off handedly referring to as the he that talked about a road trip.

  5. I'm am so gled I found this article. You have have basically said everything I've been thinking since this book came out. Have you read this article

    this shit truly pissed me off leading me to leave this comment
    "I feel that this article is too one sided when it comes to Starfire in the Nu52. I was also exposed to her from the cartoon show but also I read red hood and the outlaws because I enjoyed it. When it comes to the first issue of RHATO if you continue on with the series you learn that she has never had sex with Jason Todd and yes she does remember who Dick Grayson is even though she claimed she didn’t ( I can’t remember which issue but jason and dick have a discussion about the relationship). Also through the series she maintains a happy relationship with Roy. Personality wise I perfer her characterization in the Nu52 than the cartoon; I enjoyed the fact she is more serious and not really concerned with how things on earth operated( especially when she was paired with superman, very interesting foil between the two) . Her stories in the book showed that she is incredibly intelligent and powerful( being able to pilot a spacecraft, kicking a nuke, commanding a crew in space for example). Also I can see how people are off put by the costume but for me Kenneth Rocafort, Brett Booth, RB Silva and Rafa Sandoval did great jobs drawing her as both beautiful and capable ( also it’s never mentioned the armor she wore during the space arc and the possible costume slightly featured in Teen Titans #16, #17 and the unused cover drawn by Mico Sauyan). So yes she is different from her previous incarnations but the nu52 also changed roy and jason’s personalities ( jason for the better roy different but I like it) and made it interesting to read them together as very close friends." Anyway again love this article.

  6. I haven't read it before, likely because I try to avoid a lot of the hate directed toward RHATO. It's usually the same uniformed argument that everyone uses. RHATO was good for all three of the leads who didn't fare so well at the end of the pre-Flashpoint universe. If someone doesn't like the series fine but they should at least read and support why instead of echoing others.

    I loved the trio in RHATO, I honestly think it's the best all of them have been written in years even with the changes. The series wasn't perfect but it wasn't what people made it sound like.