The Barely Explored History of Jason Todd and Barbara Gordon

This interview with Tynion and Seeley about Batman Eternal got my attention by bringing this up. What was/is their relationship?

Granted the two don't really have many interactions prior to Batman Eternal since Barbara Gordon pretty much retired during Jason Todds' Robin run (at least pre-52 Barbara did.) She was one of the few people that was present during his funeral. (*1) They teamed up in the Nightwing Year One arc and the Gotham Knights arc that had a social worker dig up the past. The former had them basically ignoring each other the latter led to a flashback of Barbara returning to the cowl on Bruces' request. Bruce wanted to see what her opinion of the second Robin was. Jason seemed to like her (*2) and Barbara never really gave Bruce a firm review yet said "I told you so" at the funeral. There was also mention of her tutoring him but I'm not sure if that was just a cover for Jim.

Barbara has only referred to Jason in a negative light usually as a warning to others. (*3) Jason on the other hand has shown her respect and sympathy. In Under the (Red) Hood (both versions) he mentions her as "the friends he's crippled" when stating the reasons Joker should die. During the Search for Ray Palmer he was distressed to see an alternate version of her killed. That's about it for their interactions prior to DCnU.

The new 52 first had them interact in Red Hood and the Outlaws #9 during the Night of the Owls crossover. Jason makes his presence known (*4), Barbara starts throwing out threats despite him being nonthreatening. To toss him off the roof if he doesn't quickly explain himself. She's shocked that he brought Freeze in alive (*5) then states it doesn't change what he's done and how she's willing to kick him out of Gotham if he come back. Jason isn't impressed stating that others have tried and failed. The worst thing he says in this exchange is that "better bats than you" which I think is rather tame given the level of aggression he's getting. The next time their around each other is to confront Bruce in Death of the Family.

They don't interact for most of the panel time which is strange given the topic is Joker and they bother suffered at his hands. There was in fact a great deal of time developed to Barbaras' own suffering of PTS in her own title yet only Tim Drake has commented on Jason struggling to come to grips with his life after dying. To have Jason aware of what she went through and Barbaras' utter distain for him without even considering his own pain...? It doesn't paint her in the best of light. The only moment they really share is when they fight the control of the Joker toxin by holding each others' hand. This doesn't come off as them caring about each other to me, just that they were within arms reach when the others were further away.

I'm not saying it's out of character for her to act coldly with Jason. As I said above she's had a negative attitude towards him before and has shown similar problems with other anti-heroes in Birds of Prey. Although it should be noted that she has no problem mentoring a former Talon despite the unstable nature of the assassins. During her meeting with Bruce (Batman and Batgirl #21) she breaks Jasons' Robin case to offer to fill the role now that Damian is dead. Forgetting how insulting this is to Damian think of what it says about her opinion of Jason. Everyone knows that case is important to Bruce, it's to honor Jason (despite what Tomasi wrote) and remember his loss. It's highly disrespectful and she never even acknowledges Jason during the scene.

They meet up again in the Batman/Superman Annual but other than Jason laughing at her listening into Batmans' com unit they have zero interaction. Barbara has nothing to add when Bruce warns them of the dangers or when Jason tells Bruce off. Of course it should be noted that she wasn't even offered a spot on Batmans' team, the only person he offered it to was Jason. Do you think that was a sore point for her? Hard to say since she never acknowledges him.

I do think there's a lot of potential for storylines but if this is just going to be "Barbara is perfect and Jason is the failure always in the wrong" then I don't want to devote time and money on the story. I was already leery given a couple of the writers. I don't think I'd be as nervous on Barbaras' half of this if she kept being written as strong as she had been as Oracle. In general I'm not fond of the way Seeley phrased things in his interview:

Let's talk about the cast of the book overall. Especially in the modern era, you're almost never telling a big Batman story without telling a big Bat Family story. We've got some new faces in that bunch -- some brand new characters, and some new to the New 52 -- as well as some changes in status for established players. What was the overriding ethos behind how that broad cast would work in this series?

Seeley: I really liked the way we did this. Everyone is writing Batman because obviously, he's Batman. But beyond that, everyone gets to be the "lead" on a different set of characters and see them through to the end. In my case, I get to be the lead on this Batwoman/Batgirl/Red Hood storyline, which is an action adventure story that weaves throughout, with some espionage and worldwide adventure hopping stuff. And because we're allowed to weave in characters we want to play with, I kept with my whole "Monsters and Dames" idea and picked up the Catwoman story, since she's a character I like, and then, of course, I stuck Killer Croc in there.

We get to play the lead on those stories while saying to the other writers, "What do you need to set up your story?" So James will call me and say, "Can you set up this Harper and Jason story?" and I say "No problem. Here's two pages you can follow up on." We're all weaving our stories into the larger whole while working together to follow up on each others' storylines.

It's really all about where we want to take the individual relationships. I'm really excited about setting up Jason Todd/Red Hood and Batgirl. I'm explaining what their history is now. Jason is this anti-Robin who's quick to pull out a gun and shoot somebody in the face. Batgirl is obviously very moral, the rock of the Bat Family. You put them together, and you can make people care about them amidst this great adventure. That's my favorite thing about it, and my Catwoman story functions in much the same way. How is she involved in this world, or what about her keeps her in this story as both an ally and a villain?

I assume(d) that judging by Jasons' small part in the Thanksgiving teaser and the lack of mention in previous interviews he wouldn't do much in this. Since I wasn't impressed with Tynions' writing I was okay with this since it originally sounded like he might be writing the character again. But it looks like Seeley is writing Jason which might go better but I'm not sure how it will come out based on what he's saying. I don't like the idea of Barbara Gordon being this saintly figure and what feels like a set up for a fight that Jason will lose because Barbara has to win due to the plot. Given her current skill level that shouldn't happen. When has she ever been the rock of the bat family in the relaunch? She barely had any interaction with Damian, only talks to Tim off panel or DOTF, screamed at Dick in half of their appearances and doesn't like Jason. Dick or Alfred would fill that role. Holding grudges hardly makes anyone the rock in my opinion.

As a Jason Todd fan I've been burned before. Saying he's the anti-Robin is certainly a bad sign. And he's not some trigger happy moron. Has anyone at DC bothered to read Lobdells' RHATO run? He doesn't like killing, gives people chances and hasn't killed in a while anyway. I do find it humorous that he's once again hanging out with the red heads though. What about Batwoman? She hasn't had much time with the other bats, what's her role in this? I can't see her letting Barbara led this group.


*1 In DITF it was Barbara (in her wheelchair), Jim Gordon, Alfred and Bruce. Dick wasn't present since he was in space at the time. It's unknown who was present in the relaunch version.

*2 Jason did flirt with Barbara which has led to the speculation that he had a crush on her. But this was the only time they interacted that I ever saw him making an effort to flirt and stops once their on the actual mission. She was amused by this but also keep in mind their age difference was bigger before the new 52.

*3 Writers loved to take the blame off of Bruce for Jasons' death by victim blaming him instead for being "too reckless." Nevermind the fact he was a minor and did the same thing the rest of them would have done. I.E. tried to save a parent.

*4 Whether Jason is flirting when he remarks "Nice legs" to announce his presence is up to the reader. I thought it was more of a joking manner to bring up the fact she's out of the chair. He hasn't said anything else that could be taken as flirting towards her in the new 52.

*5 I heard that she might have taken credit for Freeze since Bruce assumes it was her doing. I think it was the annual with Freezes' new origin?