Friday, August 21, 2015

The Implications of Titans Hunt

It seems that Titans Hunt takes place in DCnU which has heroes that seemingly forget the history of the Titans before Tim creates his own team. Let's discuss whether this can work in canon.

Are there clues to a Pre-Tim Drake team before Titans Hunt?

Yep, granted some of it has to do with Scott Lobdell originally planning to include previous teams. He had Tim mention it outright before it was edited out for the trade. What wasn't edited out was hints in Red Hood and the Outlaws. Jason asks Roy to bring up the people they (Kori and Roy) used to hang out with when he talks to Starfire. Roy does this although she claims not to know who he's talking about. Roy names: Dick, Garth, Vic (JL member now), Lilth and Gar. Also Dustin who's presumedly a character Lobdell was going to introduce. Issue #6 shows Kori and Roy working with Dick which is confirmed elsewhere. No one else is mentioned but that doesn't mean there weren't any others. 

More to Roys' history than he remembers? 

This is brought up in the solicit for #2 and while we don't know the extent of it this may have to do with how long he's been a hero. It's never stated in RHATO how long Roy has been a crime fighter. We know he worked with Kori and Dick around the same period Dick was wearing the yellow/blue costume. The same suit Dick wears during Jasons' period as Robin. Roy never became Speedy or Green Arrows' sidekick--but what if he did? Early on in RHATO Roy says that no one returns his calls in the JL, etc. How would he even know those people? This connects a bit with my next question...

Possibly a semi-functional memory loss?

What I mean by this is that it might not work all the time. In the first issue Jason mentions Roy being a sidekick and that many consider him the worst sidekick ever. We learn later that Roy was never a sidekick and was more of a business partner. While this could have been something else that was retconned soon after print it could work with things we later see. 

I found it curious that Jason didn't know who Starfire was despite Dick dating her around the time he was Robin. Dick and him might not have been close, Bruce and Dick might not have been either, but he'd really never heard anyone mention it? Not even in the news? We know Jason stayed on the island where he met Kori until they decided to recuse Roy. Which means that unless the internet had stories about a "team" that Kori/Dick/Roy/others were on he'd have to get the information from Kori herself just before they save Roy.

Unless he already had some idea who Dicks' other friends were. The only thing that we know for sure is that Jason and Roy met before #1 given their exchange. It's implied to have been a fairly recent talk they had (i.e. before Roy was captured.) Tynion has them meeting while Jason was Robin and saying Dick mentioned Roy but the date this was supposed to take place makes no sense. (*1) Having Jason know some of the "Titans" makes sense

This could also connect to Kori having memory problem or (and this is more hopeful) personality shifts since her memory is different from humans. Otherwise Kori has no reason to act the way she does in her solo title or know so many heroes.

In the current arc of Wonder Woman Diana admits she doesn't know why she feels so connected to Donna Troy. Some have taken this as a hint that Donna hasn't so much been created from clay as reborn after her death. Diana has had her mind manipulated before the relaunch by Max Lord to forget who he was. Her lasso of truth can (usually) help her break mind control. Donna herself has a history of people forgetting her in past canon so this isn't unheard of for the character. Her disappearance might even be the reason many forgot the original Titans since she was the one that came up with the whole Titan thing.

What does this mean for the characters?

A lot. It builds more depth, more story potential and character development. Many of the Titan members have suffered and stuggled because of the loss to their mythos. Dick Grayson for example has lost a lot of his depth without his past as leader of a team. Which made something like his story in Forever Evil ring very hollow since he's no longer at the center of the DC universe. His unmasking and death really didn't affect that many characters.

For Donna it makes her more than the puppet she was made into by having a meaningful past. For Roy it could go either way. What if his friends didn't abandon him they just forgot who he was leading to the state Killer Croc found him in? What if he had friends he had failed and they abandoned him too? The same could be said about Jason if he was a Titan in this universe.

*1 Tynion says they met on the night prior to Jason dying. Lobdell set up #0 by saying Jason was benched and doing monitor duty when he discovered his mother was alive. It also took more than one day to get to her.


  1. Memory loss is such a poor plot-device but DC put themselves on a corner with their decision to make Tim's group the only TT on the N52 so there weren't a lot of solutions available.

    Defintely intrigued enough to pick the first issue at least, really curious to see if this will have a significant impact on RH/A

  2. It depends on how it's handled, I've seen it used well like an arc of Cassandra Cains' series. Tynion really didn't use it well just as an excuse to cause problems with the Outlaws that was handled poorly. Honestly I don't mind the plot being used with TH since it could be a godsend.

    At this point I'm too intrigued to pass up on it too. I'm hoping it's good and they don't use it as an excuse to break up RHA to push Roy into the Titans. It could make for some good stories in RHA if Jason thinks Roy will leave since he has other friends. I wonder if it will explore more than the original team.