Thursday, September 24, 2015

Grayson #12 Clarification

Someone asked for the identities of certain characters.


While talking with Tim and Jason after they react to Dicks' deception we get a mixture of memories from Dick as he's trying to explain what they mean to him. I didn't know that because I just saw cropped versions of the image.

  1. Someone in a Flying Graysons' costume holding a little boy. This confused me because the circus costume isn't New 52/DCYOU Dick Graysons' uniform. So I assumed it was his dad and the boy was Dick. Nope, it's supposed to be Tim. Just like pre-Flashpoint he apparently met the Graysons as a little boy although he couldn't have seen them die.
  2. Two men hugging. Now the grey uniform of the man who's face we can't see I assumed was Jason because that's the color of his RHATO top without the jacket. The guy we see I thought was Bruce which confused me. Then I wondered if it was Bruce hugging Dick. It's actually Dick and Jason hugging with Dick apparently being the one we see.

My thoughts on this:

  1. I guess this is the reason Tim got into gymnastics? It really reminds me of the unpublished art pages for the last Nightwing issue at Dicks' funeral, which I wasn't fond of. Not because of the art but rather the story it was telling. It's not the end of the world if this is still canon it just reminds me of something that annoyed the crap out of me.
  2. I'm a believer that Dick and Jason could have a deeper relationship than we expect. There's certainly potential for it given their bond pre-death and a few stories made after that showed them getting along. But Jason isn't someone that lowers his guard easily. Remember how long it took for him to hug Roy? I could see Dick hugging him but the question is when. The only time I can make this work is after Jason recovered from getting his face burned. Dick was a little short with him beforehand because of DOTF aghast. Maybe he felt guilty and was pleased to see Jason was alright?


  1. Continuity wise those scenes doesn't make sense since those are lifted directly from the pre flashpoint universe (in Tim's case) , god knows where (the "Jason" one). King is simply doing what Morrison did and putting aything he wants regardless it fits the current continuity. Some people are happy with this, I just find it irritating.

  2. Yeah but it was something Tynion wanted to remain canon in his unpublished Nightwing issue and was popular enough with other creators. It was only a matter of time.

    At least I can make it work if I tried to rationalize it, I can't say the same for a lot of Morrisons' work.

  3. That is what I meant. That issue wasn't published and thus it can't be canon but King put a pretty ambiguous comment on the issue exactly because the fandom would run with it. If you take the story by itself the mention of a funeral is far from being relevant and something that contradicts what we know about the characters so far.

    Is pretty big leap to rationalize it since the Grayson team defined Dick as being 21 years old making imposible for that scene with Tim to happen in the current continuity while Jason hugging Dick doesn't has any basis neither on the N52 nor the pre Flashpoint universe

  4. True. I wouldn't mind it still being canon if it fitted better ex: Tim being older and Dick wearing the right uniform. On the one hand I like seeing nods to stories I love and seeing the Robins acting like brothers. I will take that over them treating each other like crap any day.

    On the other there isn't even an attempt to make a lot of this make sense. Some of it would be easier than others like showing how the hug happened. The Jason/Dick relationship has been vague at best in the relaunch. Even if they weren't close I could still buy Jason getting upset. It's another betrayal, Dick hurt everyone and the fact he faked being a dead Robin would really piss him off.

    It could be worse, it could treat canon/characters like Starfire does.

  5. Yeah. Honestly the whole "story>continuity" has really soured me on a lot of the DCYou offerings. It makes me feel like is pointless to commit to one series when any writer can take those characters and do whatever the hell they want with them diregarding their development entirely.

    Another thing that has soured me on King's writing is the way he crams fanservice and nods to the fandom without caring if it organically fits on his narrative. I'm all for fanservice of any kind but only if is a complement for the main plot and not viceversa.

  6. The only good thing about the loose canon is being able to ignore bad stories. Well as long as they don't reference them.

    I'll have to get the issue to be a better judge but he seems to do fan service far better than Tynion. Doesn't Grayson deal with mind altering drugs? That could explain a lot of confusion.

  7. There's stuff like a spread of Dick askin "am I straight?", Midnighter identifying Grayson by his ass or another spread with a woman screaming "Dick" that completely break the mood of the story and that it could be changed for something more fitting for the narrative. In this issue, you have Damian's hug or Jason's mention of a funeral. That's the kind of stuff I've come to hate from his writing.

  8. I thought that was something Seeley did. Was he only co-writing at the beginning? Whether or not the funeral means the unprinted issue it seems logical that there would be one. So that doesn't bother me especially from a meta standpoint since Dick wasn't at Jasons' funeral.

    The hug and blind acceptance are harder to buy.

  9. Nope, all of those examples are King's. He has admited so on interviews. And yeah, the dynamics just feel off.

    Hopefully Robin War will be better.

  10. I think Seeley approves of the "everyone wants him" mind frame which threw me off. Because we want Dick to suddenly be a ladys' man even though he previously was a one woman man that didn't usually (unless bad writing occurred) do one night stands.

    I really hope it is because I'm seriously considering getting it.